This is older than the Saints I think...or at least every Great Grandma I knew made this one with their eyes closed. We just watched in amazement. It looked like parchment paper on the table and they worked wonders with it. It was delectible, flakey every time, and anything that oozed was sweet and crunchy and great to our palate. You can master it, but it is a challenge if you like that sort of thing....I know I do.