The countries of NA*ME

[Elmotoo]

Algeria
Egypt
Libya
Morocco
Tunisia

Bahrain
Iraq
Iran
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Oman
Palestine
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
Yemen

[Elmotoo]

Now that the Tour is over, I'd like to open this up for discussion....

What ARE the NA*ME boundaries? Are there countries you think belong here that weren't represented in the Tour? Are there countries that were part of this forum during the Tour that you think belong elsewhere?

[Chef 1278268 fitness]

is Israel not part of the middle east?

[Elmotoo]

Good morning!

Technically & geographically, yes. But, being a cooking site, the North Africa/Middle East Forum is for countries with food typical to the region. Israel is represented by the Kosher/Jewish Forum.

Does that make sense?

Beth

[Chef 1278268 fitness]

thanx for the quick reply. though they are kosher they do cook a lot of the regional food as well as east European food.

[Sephardi Kitchen]

Elmotoo wrote:
Good morning!

Technically & geographically, yes. But, being a cooking site, the North Africa/Middle East Forum is for countries with food typical to the region. Israel is represented by the Kosher/Jewish Forum.

Does that make sense?

Beth

This is very late, but:

I think Israel should actually be included in this group as well. Yes, there are some people who prepare Eastern European food. But over half the Jewish population of Israel is of Middle Eastern/Sephardic origin, with a cuisine that is definitely typical to the region. The dominant Israeli cuisine is a fusion of Middle Eastern+ Mediterranean and a little European/African influences (due to the nation's huge diversity), that follows the kosher dietary laws. You include Morocco in the NA*ME list even though it has a definite French and Spanish (aka "not typical to the region") influence, so why not include Israel?

Plus, I have noticed that the Kosher/Jewish forum is almost entirely dominated by people who prepare Ashkenazi food (European Jewish-- blech in my opinion!), and non-traditional recipes that simply follow the Kosher dietary laws. I say Sephardic (Middle Eastern Jewish) cuisine, which is pretty much synonymous with Israeli cuisine, fits in this group much better

[UmmBinat]

Very interesting.

Here is what I found on Wikipedia About Sephardic cuisine, "The cooking style is largely Middle Eastern, with significant admixtures of Spanish, Italian, and North African flavors.

[chef FIFI]

There is already a Jewish/Kosher forum...so I really think questions pertaining that cuisine should be directed to that forum, for their expertise in not just the cooking but also "kosher" preparation would probable be more practiced and understood, and therefore better answered in that forum.

[UmmBinat]

There was no questions here just facts that at least some Israeli food is very Middle Eastern in flavours/cooking.

Also there are Jewish Moroccans, Jewish Lebanese, Jewish Yemeni, Jewish Persians all of course coming at least in background from the Middle East

[Elmotoo]

Yes, there is a lot of crossover & ever cuisine has influences from other countries. There is a Jewish/Kosher Forum. There is a Greek Forum. Further east, countries get muddled in which might be better represented in the Asian Forum which already covers a huge expanse. But the Forum parameters are what they are & we work within that set up. This is the Middle East/North African Forum with the countries represented given in a couple places.

There is a disclaimer in NA/ME Tag that recipes can be 'in the spirit of' a recipe from this region. This was worked out many years ago when Zaar World Tour started. I review the cookbooks for ZWT & NA/ME Tag. If I ask a recipe to be moved to a different cookbook, I'm not saying that food isn't eaten in a country represented by this Forum, just that it fits better in a different Forum's cookbook. Just because I can get excellent Dominican food down the street doesn't mean it is representative of US Regional cooking.

PLEASE keep posting how various cuisines are differnt & similar because it is very interesting! But the Forum parameters aren't changing at this time.


Beth

[Sephardi Kitchen]

UmmBinat wrote:
There was no questions here just facts that at least some Israeli food is very Middle Eastern in flavours/cooking.

Also there are Jewish Moroccans, Jewish Lebanese, Jewish Yemeni, Jewish Persians all of course coming at least in background from the Middle East

Exactly!


And let's also not forget that Israeli cuisine does not necessarily mean "Jewish/Kosher". There is a large number of Christian and Muslim (and Zorastrian and Baha'i and Karaite etc) Israelis as well, that share a cuisine very similar to that of Sephardic Jews-- and since they aren't held to the same dietary laws, they do not need to keep the laws of kashrut.

And again, when you check the Jewish/Kosher forum, it is pretty much all Ashkenazi food (which 90% of American Jews are-- so when they hear "Jewish" they assume gefilte fish, kugel, tsimmes and the like- yuck!). If not Ashkenazi, it is most likely simply kosher versions of non-traditional dishes.

"Kosher" is a dietary category, not regional.
"Jewish" is (unfortunately) usually meant to refer to only Ashkenazic cuisine.
"Israeli" cuisine is a hybrid of indigenous Middle Eastern and Mediterranean food, that often happens to be kosher, but often is not. Not everyone in Israel is Jewish!

Following this logic, Indian cuisine should be moved to the vegetarian category Perhaps a "Sephardic/Mizrachi" addition can be made to the NA*ME Tag list, to specify the Middle Eastern/fusion aspects of Israeli cuisine (thereby excluding Ashkenazi dishes)?

Interesting discussion!

[UmmBinat]

Very interesting

[Cookgirl]

What about Afghanistan?

I know geographically they are Central Asian, but their food is definitely
Middle Eastern in taste.


Sephardic Kitchen:

I'm thumbs up on Sephardic cooking and thumbs down on Ashkenazi.
I find Ashkenazi food for the most part yuck-o, too.

[Elmotoo]

i know there is lots 'n' lots of crossover....the powers that be way back when the forums were set up deliberated & set the parameters. this is what i work with. i *have* mentioned moving borders before but it was not well received.

i'm still wrapping my brain about sephardic recipes in na/me.... as long as recipes are middle eastern in nature - not specifically representative of any other particular country outside of those represented in the na/me forum, they're ok for playing.

i may get stricter with recipes submitted to a zaar world tour cookbook but we'll cross that bridge next year or whenever na/me is visited again during the Tour.

BTW, signups for this year's Tour is up...probably in Games. Or give Leslie a holler.

xo Bethie

[Hajar Elizabeth]

chef FIFI wrote:
There is already a Jewish/Kosher forum...so I really think questions pertaining that cuisine should be directed to that forum, for their expertise in not just the cooking but also "kosher" preparation would probable be more practiced and understood, and therefore better answered in that forum.

Hello FIFI!

LTNS. I have to pipe in and agree. Morocco influenced Spain far more than Spain influenced Morocco and the only thing that Morocco does a la Francaise is coffee in cafes and purchased pastries. Morocco has it's very own wide and diverse cooking style that belongs only to Morocco.

Hajar