Helpful Tips for Sourdough Baking

[Rachel Savage]

Donna M. wrote:
Hi Rachel,
How are you mixing your dough? Are you using a mixer or a bread machine?

Using dough hooks on a mixer.

Donna M. wrote:
Tell me how you care for your starter. How often do you feed it, how much do you feed it, and how much old starter do you have before feeding? Do you discard most of the old starter before you feed? Are you using dechlorinated water? Are you proofing your starter (after a good feeding) before using it to mix your dough?

I have made two different starters. I don't really remember what I did with the first one (a bit over a year ago now). With this one, I started it for four days with just over 1/4c rye flour and just under 1/4c warm (tap) water for each day. Is de-chlorinated water distilled water? I've just been using the "normal" stuff, but I do have a Brita filter, so could try that (though it lives in the fridge so is pretty cold).

Then, since it was bubbly, I tried to make a bread, which used about 1c. of the starter. This was the one that basically failed to rise (though there were a couple of airy pockets in the baked loaf).

I then topped up the starter for a couple of days as before and used another cup and a bit for a sourdough pizza crust, but I cheated by using some commercial yeast in that. It turned out fine, but needed far more flour than the recipe called for and was still a very sticky dough.

Based on the suggestion above, I considered whether the starter had too much water and dumped a bunch of white flour in. It has seemed *much* happier since then and I have been topping up with 1/2c rye flour and 1/4c water (still warm, from the tap) for the past couple of days. The starter seems much happier at this point.

Donna M. wrote:
If you can tell me, step-by-step, including time frames, how you are making your bread, maybe I can trouble shoot and figure out what is going wrong. Have you tried making a different recipe, or is it always the same one?

I've tried three different recipes and had different problems with each. Once was from the Joy of Cooking, one was this one: http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/bread/recipe-berkeley.html and one was from a British cook book: Bread Matters, which is excellent about the problems with bread sold in British supermarkets (hence my attempts to bake for myself) but in metric weights, so potentially confusing to someone like me who doesn't have a scale in the kitchen.

For the latest attempt (from Bread Matters) I mixed the dough with the dough hooks and then gave it 10 hours to rise. Aside from a couple of air pockets in the baked bread, it was pretty dense. Tasty. But dense.

The earlier 2 attempts just spread horizontally and didn't do much vertically. Again they were tasty, but pancake-like rather than bread-like.

I'd love a recommendation of a recipe that's good for beginners.

Thanks for your help.

Rachel

[Chef Tweaker]

This is supposed to be a good beginning bread. Basic Sourdough Bread
I must admit I had a terrible time getting a good starter too. I finally gave up on mine and need to start over or ask Donna to send me some. But this is supposed to be the best recipe so you could give it a try.

[CarrolJ]

Chef Tweaker wrote:
This is supposed to be a good beginning bread. Basic Sourdough Bread
I must admit I had a terrible time getting a good starter too. I finally gave up on mine and need to start over or ask Donna to send me some. But this is supposed to be the best recipe so you could give it a try.

I agree with Chef Tweaker that this is a good recipe. Actually Donna has many fine recipes for sourdough breads posted here at this site. My personal favorite and is shared by several other sourdough bakers here at Zaar is Sourdough Oatmeal Potato Bread.
It has a wonderful flavor.

[Bonnie G #2]

CarrolJ wrote:

Chef Tweaker wrote:
This is supposed to be a good beginning bread. Basic Sourdough Bread
I must admit I had a terrible time getting a good starter too. I finally gave up on mine and need to start over or ask Donna to send me some. But this is supposed to be the best recipe so you could give it a try.

I agree with Chef Tweaker that this is a good recipe. Actually Donna has many fine recipes for sourdough breads posted here at this site. My personal favorite and is shared by several other sourdough bakers here at Zaar is Sourdough Oatmeal Potato Bread.
It has a wonderful flavor.

Oh Carrol, I haven't tried this recipe don't know how I missed it - it's next on my list now.

[Rachel Savage]

Thanks all for the helpful questions and suggestions. I just baked my first successful sourdough loaf on Thursday and have used it for toast and sandwiches. The taste and texture were excellent.

I suspect the problem all along was starter that was too liquid/runny. I have now tweaked the proportions of water and flour I use to feed it and it seems happier and more pasty/less liquid. I can't wait to try some more recipes, but I need to bulk up the starter again because there's not much left at the moment.

The potato and oatmeal bread sounds delicious. Are potato flakes the same as instant mashed potatoes?

Rachel

[CarrolJ]

Rachel Savage wrote:
Thanks all for the helpful questions and suggestions. I just baked my first successful sourdough loaf on Thursday and have used it for toast and sandwiches. The taste and texture were excellent.

I suspect the problem all along was starter that was too liquid/runny. I have not tweaked the proportions of water and flour I use to feed it and it seems happier and more pasty/less liquid. I can't wait to try some more recipes, but I need to bulk up the starter again because there's not much left at the moment.

The potato and oatmeal bread sounds delicious. Are potato flakes the same as instant mashed potatoes?

Rachel

Yes they are the same thing. So glad you had a successfully baked loaf.

[Iceland]

I am going to make your starter now and follow the instructions form the demo thread. I am quite excited about this but i have one question: When the starter is ready, how much of it do i use to bake bread (i still do not know which one) and how much of the starter i keep on feeding and petting? I really tried to figure this out, sorry if this is asking stupidly.

[CarrolJ]

Iceland wrote:
I am going to make your starter now and follow the instructions form the demo thread. I am quite excited about this but i have one question: When the starter is ready, how much of it do i use to bake bread (i still do not know which one) and how much of the starter i keep on feeding and petting? I really tried to figure this out, sorry if this is asking stupidly.

You will use the amount of starter that the recipe tells you to use. Rarely is it over 1 1/4 cups although there are a few of Donna M's recipes which call for 2 cups.

Whatever amount you have left...even a couple of Tablespoons...just feed with an appropriate amount of equal parts flour and water. Let it set on the counter about 30 minutes or so...and then refrigerate. I always note on the container the date so I know when I last used it.

You don't need a huge amount saved in the refrigerator. I usually keep between 1/4 to 1/2 cup in my containers. Some people keep even a smaller amount.

[Iceland]

Thank you so much!

[CarrolJ]

Iceland wrote:
Thank you so much!

Happy to help. Now be sure to let us know your results. Positive or negative. We want to help and Donna is especially good at getting in there and figuring out what we've done wrong so we can do better next time.

And of course if yours is a success...which it will be even if it's not the first time...we want to cheer you on!

Plus there is the other benefit...we all learn from each other.

[Bonnie G #2]

CarrolJ wrote:

Iceland wrote:
Thank you so much!

Happy to help. Now be sure to let us know your results. Positive or negative. We want to help and Donna is especially good at getting in there and figuring out what we've done wrong so we can do better next time.

And of course if yours is a success...which it will be even if it's not the first time...we want to cheer you on!

Plus there is the other benefit...we all learn from each other.

Carrol is so right Iceland, so much of the fun is sharing results with the rest of us. We've all learned so much - it's still amazing to me that I actually bake bread and enjoy it so much. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Iceland]

It is day 4. I saw onle bubble on day 2 and some yesterday. Now it looks quite nice and it smells good, a little sour but not funny so i am quite happy with my first try to make sour dough.
In the instructions from Donna it says that today i am supposed to measure out 1/4 cup and discard the rest. I am just wondering i i could acctually use that rest for baking and hold on with the 1/4 cup (add 1/4 unbleached AP flour and 1/4 cup water like Donna says). Why do i have to throw the rest, is there a reason for that?

[Bonnie G #2]

Iceland wrote:
It is day 4. I saw onle bubble on day 2 and some yesterday. Now it looks quite nice and it smells good, a little sour but not funny so i am quite happy with my first try to make sour dough.
In the instructions from Donna it says that today i am supposed to measure out 1/4 cup and discard the rest. I am just wondering i i could acctually use that rest for baking and hold on with the 1/4 cup (add 1/4 unbleached AP flour and 1/4 cup water like Donna says). Why do i have to throw the rest, is there a reason for that?

Hee, Hee, Iceland - I'm going to let someone else answer those questions as I'm not very good at it and there's always more professionals standing by and will be here soon. I just had to grin at the question though as I can remember asking or at least thinking the very same thing. Why throw out the baby???? But now that I've been doing this a little longer I realize that if we kept it all we'd be over run with starter. I do try to use as much as I can though and have found some wonderful recipes that don't use much such as pancakes, muffins and angel biscuits that are all made with wild yeast and taste soooo yummy. Have fun, and I'm sure Donna, Carrol or one of the others will be here soon to really answer your questions.

[Iceland]

Thanks for your reply. I will bake something out of the thing i should throw away. Do you have recipes in your cookbook? I have now time to browse it now but all the things you told me about sound very interessting to me. I will check in 1 hour than i have more time. I am thankful for any hint as i am new to this. I thought about using the thing i should through away right away, maybe just baking some basic breadrolls. I love baking but i have never used sourdough - i still not quite get it.

[Donna M.]

Yes, you can use the discard in a recipe. I wouldn't use it as a source of yeast, tho, because it is too young. You can add up to 1/2 cup to any quick bread recipe without altering the recipe. You can also chuck some into any yeast bread dough for extra flavor.