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    You are in: Home / Community Forums / Breads & Baking / How to make bigger cavities on texture?
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    How to make bigger cavities on texture?

    satimis
    Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:13 am
    Food.com Groupie
    Hi all,

    Baked a wholemeal/wholewheat loaf with following recipe;

    Wholemeal/wholewheat
    Ingredients: Loaf 500g Crust - medium

    hot water 1 cup (45deg C)
    yeast 2 teaspoons
    sugar 3 tablespoons
    canola oil 1/4 cup
    salt 1 teaspoon
    wholewheat flour (stoneground) 408 g
    yogurt, strawberry 45g
    gluten 3 tsp

    Directions:
    1 Put hot water, yeast and sugar in a plastic container allowing them to stand 15 minutes. Yeast foams.
    Photo: foam
    http://ubuntuone.com/1i5YE7aYhRYMYHfyMZ3KWi

    2 Add the foam and remaining ingredients to the baking pan
    3 Use wholewheat cycle

    Total cycle time 4:30 hrs
    Preheating :0:30 hrs
    Kneading time, total 0:34 hrs
    1st kneading (slow) 0:02 hrs
    2nd kneading (fast) 0:28 hrs
    Rise, 1st 0:45 hrs
    3rd kneading (fast) 15 seconds
    Rise, 2nd 0:35 hrs
    4th kneading (fast) 15 seconds
    Rise, 3rd 1:20 hrs
    Baking 0:45 hrs

    A nice loaf baked with tender and crispy crust and very soft bread similar to white bread.

    wholemeal loaf
    http://ubuntuone.com/7B8eJWgMlW7kjtc7DVVYdy

    wholemeal slices
    http://ubuntuone.com/0bSvWX1EgK8u05tJP8qt4X

    However I'm not satisfied with its texture, cavities smaller.

    Can I add more yeast making bigger cavities. OR are there any other solutions. TIA

    satimis
    duonyte
    Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:54 am
    Forum Host
    I cannot see the photos from this computer, but generally a wetter dough will have a more open structure in the crumb. You have to be careful when using the bread machine, since you are tied into its cycles. I would start with adding a couple of tablespoons or maybe 1/4 cup, but no more and see how that works. The danger is that it might rise a little too much and either hit the lid or collapse on itself.
    satimis
    Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:37 pm
    Food.com Groupie
    Can reducing kneading time make better texture?
    duonyte
    Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:43 pm
    Forum Host
    Generally no - kneading develops gluten. Gluten strands are what catch the air within the dough, leading to the rise and also capturing air bubbles to make a more open structure. Strong gluten is key. You have a denser, closer crumb when you use flours that have low gluten, for example cake flour in a tea cake. Cakes have a close not an open crumb.
    Red Apple Guy
    Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:00 pm
    Forum Host
    Satimis
    Your slices are very open (holey) for a whole meal loaf that's enriched (oil, yogurt or milk, and sugar). I make 100% whole wheat loaves weekly, and the crumb (or texture) is not as open as your loaf. Good Job!! I think you have a winner of a loaf on your hands.

    To make a holey loaf, try lean breads (just yeast, salt, flour and water) and make the dough on the wet side as duonyte advised. White flour is easier to work with to make a holey bread. Use the french bread cycle. However, having said that, holey bread is difficult to make in my opinion.

    My method of making holey bread involves the Law of Large Numbers. I make dozens of loaves and a few will be pleasingly holey. icon_smile.gif

    Red
    duonyte
    Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:46 pm
    Forum Host
    Now that I've seen the bread, I agree - it is a pretty open crumb. And a nice rustic-looking loaf. Again, you could try adding just a little more water - a wetter dough will be more open. The dough is harder to handle but that's not an issue when you are baking in the machine.
    satimis
    Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:58 pm
    Food.com Groupie
    Hi all,

    Thanks for your advice.

    I'll try follows;

    1) Use the "Basic White Bread" program of Kenwood BM450 which was suggested by the poster of the original recipe. I modified his recipe adding yogurt and preheating. This program reduces the kneading time without preheating. If the result is good then I'll lock the recipe. If "NO" then continue 2);

    2) Add 1/4 cup of water in addition and go back to "Whole Wheat" program.

    I'll come back afterwards.

    This is "Law of Large Numbers" as mentioned by Red Apple Guy

    satimis
    Red Apple Guy
    Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:48 am
    Forum Host
    For whole grain loaves, long kneading helps make for a light loaf.
    satimis
    Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:14 am
    Food.com Groupie
    Red Apple Guy wrote:
    For whole grain loaves, long kneading helps make for a light loaf.


    OK

    I'll change my test programs.

    1)
    Add 1/4 cup of water in addition as advised by duonyte and go back to "Whole Wheat" program.

    If fail, then test
    2)
    Use the "Basic White Bread" program of Kenwood BM450 ....

    Thanks

    satimis
    Red Apple Guy
    Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:29 am
    Forum Host
    That makes more sense to me.
    bakingfool
    Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:45 am
    Food.com Groupie
    I agree that that's a beautiful loaf of whole grain bread!
    satimis
    Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:39 am
    Food.com Groupie
    Baked another wholemeal loaf

    Recipes
    ======
    hot water 1-1/4 cup (45deg C)
    yeast 2 teaspoons
    sugar 3 tablespoons
    canola oil 1/4 cup
    salt 1 teaspoon
    wholewheat flour (stoneground) 408 g
    yogurt, strawberry 45g
    gluten 3 tsp

    Directions:
    1 Put hot water, yeast and sugar in a plastic container allowing yeast to foam. It takes 24 min.

    Photo: foam 0281
    http://ubuntuone.com/0Yl0FVrK13VXyNCujbg5u7

    2 Add the foam and remaining ingredients to baking pan
    3 Use wholewheat program

    Total cycle time 4:30 hrs
    Preheating :0:30 hrs
    Kneading time, total 0:34 hrs
    1st kneading (slow) 0:02 hrs
    2nd kneading (fast) 0:28 hrs
    Rise, 1st 0:45 hrs
    3rd kneading (fast) 15 seconds
    Rise, 2nd 0:35 hrs
    4th kneading (fast) 15 seconds
    Rise, 3rd 1:20 hrs
    Baking 0:45 hrs

    The top of loaf partially collapses
    wholemeal loaf 0281
    http://ubuntuone.com/1fvvGRXPEhyvn22g7cOMrC

    Would it be too much water?

    wholemeal loaf slice 0282
    http://ubuntuone.com/2AyU4XsayFJxPNaHgrcGWU

    On comparing the texture of the slice with previous slice, I suppose the former slice 0269 looks better. I think I can lock the recipe. This shall end my test on wholemeal loaf.

    I shall concentrate my time on Genoise, the sponge cake. I'm almost coming to a conclusion that the "sponge" of the cake depends largely on beating egg foam. The time and how adding lemon juice and sugar have great influence. It involves the chemistry of egg yolk and egg white, the protein. I don't have cream of tartar here.

    satimis
    Red Apple Guy
    Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:09 pm
    Forum Host
    I agree that the first recipe is a keeper. The extra water in the second attempt looks like it did open the crumb some, but it was already pretty light.

    The machine allows 3 rises, similart to recipes in Laurel's Kitchen books on bread, but the last rise (the proof) is much longer than I would expect. That may be why the loaf collapsed some (over proofing). If that happens again, I'd trim the yeast back some, to maybe 5 g (a scant 2 teaspoons).

    Red
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