Poolish baking - failure

[satimis]

Hi all,

This is my first sourdough bread with baking result in complete mess.

Breadmaker - Kenwood BM450
loaf 500g

Poolish
white flour for bread 2.4 oz
water 1/2 cup (cold)
1/8 tsp inst yeast


Final Dough
white flour for bread 8 oz
water 6 oz (cold)
1/2 teaspoon inst yeast
1 tsp salt
sour cream 2 oz for making tender crust
all of the poolish


Dispenser
Salted cashew nuts 1 oz (chopped)
Walnut 1 oz (chopped)


Combined all ingredients for the poolish in a glass bowl. Covered the bowl with plastic wrap, leaving it at room temperature overnight.

Next morning the poolish looked like this;
IMG-0227.JPG
http://ubuntuone.com/2kJ4ETyH44BjV1EIvwSeKg

Poured all ingredients of the final dough in the baking pan.

Preheat time 3 min
Mixing time 20 min
Rising time 90 min
Baking time 50 min
Baking temperature 300deg F
(there is no temperature setting on the breadmaker. To reach higher temperature requires increasing the baking time)

Baking result likes this;
IMG-0228.JPG
http://ubuntuone.com/7GF3bqC5Ohm5Yse2isfyVp
IMG-0229.JPG
http://ubuntuone.com/73etJTZfFBWdQoCDJOqof7

- Bread top completely flat
- bread texture is poor with too soft bread.

Would it be;
insufficient yeast ?
insufficient baking time ?

TIA

satimis

[duonyte]

Sourdough breads are a bit hard in the breadmaker - they are not consistent in the amount of time that they need to rise. Does your machine have a bake only cycle? It might be better to let the dough rise for as long as it needs to then bake. Recipes where the bread is made completely in the machine usually use a full complement of yeast with the starter, so as to ensure certainty of timing.

This is a chart for troubleshooting problems, http://www.breadmachinedigest.com/beginners/troubleshooting-chart.php

There are some sourdough recipes for the bread machine posted here perhaps one of them would be more successful for you.

Sourdough Bread for the Bread Machine
Sourdough White for the Bread Machine
Sourdough French Bread - Abm (Amish Bread Starter)
Sourdough Bread (for bread machines)

[satimis]

Thanks for your threads.

Kenwood Breadmaker BM450 comes with "Knead Only" and "Bake Only" function.

The baking program was pre-set by me.

Program Setting:
(Self-programming)

1. Pre-Heat
0 – 60mins

2. Knead 1 (slow turning)
0 – 10mins

3. Knead 2
0 – 30mins

4. Rise 1
0 – 60mins

5. Knead 3 - 15secs Non changeable
Kneader will not operate if Rise 2 set to 0

6. Rise 2
0 – 2hrs

7. Knead 4 - 15secs Non changeable
Kneader will not operate if Rise 3 set to 0

8. Rise 3
0 – 2hrs

9. Baking
0 – 1hr 30mins

10. Keep Warm
0 – 60mins
------

May-be overnight is NOT sufficient for starter to ferment. I'll increase it to >24 hrs in next baking.

Is there any conversion reference for converting 1 cup starter to gm/oz? It is NOT easy to measure the starter by volumn.

Thanks

satimis

[duonyte]

I treat starter as more of a liquid and measure in liquid measure cup which would be 230 ml

[satimis]

Baked another sourdough bread in Kenwood breadmaker BM450 with following recipe. Successful;

Sourdough starter
1/2 cup white bread flour
1/2 cup tap water
fermentation time 24 hrs


Ingredients
500g loaf

warm water (45 deg C) 100ml
sourdough starter 125g
salt 1/2 tsp
white bread flour 205g
dried instant yeast 1/2 tsp

Place all ingredients in the baking pan in order.
Select Kenwood BM450 Program 1 - Basic Bread.

Dispenser
Almond dice 4 tsp
Sultanas 4 tsp (slighly chopped)

Total cycle time 3:05 hrs
Kneading time, total 0:34 hrs
Dispenser actuated (time remaining 2:45 hrs)
Kneading restarts (1st) (time remaining 2:05 hrs)
(about 15 seconds)
Kneading restarts (2nd) (time remaining 1:40 hrs)
(about 15 seconds)
Total Rise time 1:46 hrs
Baking time 0:45 hrs (time remaining 0:45 hrs)

A soft loaf baked with crispy crust but not tender.
Sourdough bread
http://ubuntuone.com/4hsrI29tVsyQ4joykhWeW5

Sourdough bread slice
http://ubuntuone.com/6vTyMKGp2WAlXcWyfVpFqY
nice texture but looking different to yeast bread.

In my next round I'll add 40g sour cream or plain yogurt to make the crust tender. Also I'll increase the starter fermentation to 48 hrs or more and delete instant yeast.

Comment and suggestion would be appreciated. TIA

B.R.
satimis

[duonyte]

This recipe looks very interesting, with the sultanas and almonds. Thanks for keeping us apprised of your experiments!

[satimis]

Baked another loaf. Unsuccessful, NO RISE

Ingredients
500g loaf

Sourdough starter
1/2 cup white bread flour
1/2 cup tap water
fermentation time 48 hrs at room temperature, approx 75deg F

warm warter 100ml (113deg F)
sourdough starter 185g
salt 1/2 tsp
bread flour 205g
yogurt, strawberry, non-fat 20g
(no plain yogurt available)

Dispenser
Almond dice 4 tsp 28g
Sultanas (slighly chopped) 28g

Kenwood BM450 Program 1 Basic White Bread

Total cycle time 3:05 hrs
1st kneading (slow) 0:03 hrs
2nd kneading (fast) 0:31 hrs
Rise, 1st 0:26 hrs
3rd kneading (fast) 15 seconds
Rise, 2nd 0:25 hrs
4th kneading (fast) 15 seconds
Rise, 3rd 0:55 hrs
Baking 0:45 hrs

Possibly yeast is indispensable for baking sourdough bread in breadmaker, disregarding its quantity. I can't speak for electric oven because I don't have it here.

satimis

[duonyte]

I think you really need yeast in bread machine sourdoughs because sourdough is so unpredictable in rising.

[satimis]

If it still needs yeast to rise then what will be the difference between pure yeast bread without adding sourdough starter and that with sourdough starter added?

[duonyte]

The starter will still provide flavor, but because the bread rises more quickly due to the addition of the commercial yeast, the flavor will not be as fully developed. A slow rise helps flavor development. This is why some people like to mix up a dough and have it rise overnight in the refrigerator - the cool environment slows down the rise and enhances flavor.

Sourdough starter generally requires a longer rise, and the amount of starter used and its strength makes the length of time very variable. I make this recipe, Artisan Sourdough Garlic Bread, which calls of just 1/4 teaspoon of sourdough starter (although I usually use 2 tbl) in the sponge - which rises overnight -, and then just 1/2 tsp commercial yeast in the bread itself - it requires a longer rise than the normal recipe that calls for a standard amount of dry yeast. Different batches of the same recipe will vary in time also, depending on all types of variables.

The bread machine requires a set timetable, so using just starter is difficult.

[satimis]

The design principle of a bread machine are;
- putting all ingredients in the baking pan
- press the button
- the machine does the rest of the work and delivers a bread to its user.

Eventhough I can mix/dough the ingredients in the machine, put the dough in the fridge to develop flavour, accelerate the rise time in microwave and bake the dough in the machine. But it defeats the aforesaid principle.

I think my experiment on baking sourdough bread in bread machine shall halt until I can discover a new way doing it in a bread machine

Thanks for your recipe. I'll test it. I think my Kenwood breadmaker BM450 can do the job except building the baking temperature to 475°F because there is only ONE heating element in the baking chamber. I'll see what will happen and come back to this thread when there is a result available.

Edit:
Are the garlic coves chopped?

I like garlic bread especially its smell. The garlic bread served in restaurant is quite tasty.

[duonyte]

This particular recipe uses whole cloves of garlic. There are different types of garlic bread, some use a garlic paste that is spread on bread or cloves of garlic are rubbed onto toasted bread, etc.

The bread machine is a wonderful invention but it cannot handle all type and styles of bread. The technology has certain limitations. i value it for its superior kneading capability, so that I use it for nearly all bread recipes, even if I am not baking in the machine.