Brine Class Chat Transcript

[Karen From Colorado]

Here is the chat for the Brining class held today, August 12th, 2006

AngelaMarie: Sort of an introduction if I may:
AngelaMarie: My name is Angela Marie Eggert.
AngelaMarie: I reside in Memphis, Tn.
AngelaMarie: I graduated from Le Cordon Bleu like many many years ago. This subject has many opinions from different chefs around the world. However the main opinion from the majority is to BRINE, BRINE BRINE.
AngelaMarie: There are many reasons for Brining also
AngelaMarie: This class is only to be informative. It is not meant to be a forum for my telling you that you must do it my way. It is just that my way has been proven effective. And there are some basics that MUST be followed
AngelaMarie: Listen, learn, and learn well, and you will of course have some meat that is juicier than you have ever had
AngelaMarie: Isnt that the goal of all cooks.
AngelaMarie: Some of the material I am presenting has been copied from my books that Ive had for a long time. IN the interest of time, and perhaps lengthy discussions, we will dispense with giving credit where credit is due. Remember, everything we learned comes from someone else anyways. Well most things lol We wont go into the other topics that we learned ourselves, if you get my drift,
AngelaMarie: At least not today. ROFL
AngelaMarie: We should also look at some old familiar aspects of cooking, like it does not hurt to rehash cleanliness.
AngelaMarie: So onward. lol

AngelaMarie: QUESTION, BRINE OR MARINADE
AngelaMarie: What is the basic difference between a brine and a Marinade?
AngelaMarie: A Brine consists of Salt , Water and Spices. A Marinade consists of Spices, and most acidic types of additives..
AngelaMarie: The Brine penetrates the meat thus the spices in the Brine also invade deep into the meat.
AngelaMarie: A Marinade is basically and most of the time acidic in nature.
AngelaMarie: However it does take an enzyme to break down a piece of meat to make it tender
AngelaMarie: So how and why does a marinade work
AngelaMarie: Consider this hypothetical situation.
AngelaMarie: If it were possible to eat a piece of Marinated piece of meat in your mouth with out Saliva. you would always most likely have a very very tough piece of meat
AngelaMarie: It takes enzyimes to produce a tender piece of meat.
AngelaMarie: The enzymes are actually in your saliva.
AngelaMarie: However, the acidic nature of the Marinade actually produces more saliva in your mouth, there by tenderizing the meat as you chew.
AngelaMarie: Now a Brine acts totally different, and at the same time is not a tenderizer. It is a more of a moistuerizer
AngelaMarie: There is a large amount of dissention in the tenderizing subject on marinades among different people.
AngelaMarie: After studing it quite well, I hold that the marinade does no tenderizing because it does take enzymes to break down meat
AngelaMarie: Altho at the same time Acids do break down certain microfibers in the meat and thereby some people say it is tenderized.
AngelaMarie: I say it dont!!!! lol ah lets keep it more simple , lets move on.
AngelaMarie: We will get into only the brining aspect of cooking
AngelaMarie: So for today lets forget the Marinade. lol It dont exist today .ololol
AngelaMarie:lets discuss Salt for a few

AngelaMarie: SALT KOSHER DESCRIPTION
AngelaMarie: Kosher salt is made by compacting granular salt, producing large, irregularly shaped flakes which allows the salt to easily draw blood when applied to butchered meat (koshering process). The structure dissolves easily and provides flavor without oversalting because of it's large surface area.
AngelaMarie: NOTICE,
AngelaMarie: The Portion of the definition of Salt in the Recipe Zaar Dictionary states that:
AngelaMarie: Most of today's salt is mined and comes from large deposits left by dried salt lakes throughout the world. Salt preserves foods by creating a hostile environment for certain microorganisms. Within foods, salt brine dehydrates bacterial cells, alters osmotic pressure and inhibits bacterial growth and subsequent spoilage. .
AngelaMarie: For further interesting info about salt consider
AngelaMarie: The word "salary" was derived from the Latin term "salarium" which was the name for a soldier's pay in the army of ancient Rome. The pay included a large ration of salt, which was a spice of high value and also a medium for exchange; thus the origin of such expressions as "salt of the earth" and "worth your salt.
AngelaMarie: So, now LADIES consider telling your DH how you are worth your salt. See if he can overcome this one. lol
AngelaMarie: If you're using kosher salt, you'll need to use more of it by volume. This is because kosher salt has larger crystals and is bulkier than table salt. I actually prefer using kosher salt in brines because it dissolves much faster, and it comes in nice big cartons. Larger crystals are important in the denaturing of the meat. ( denaturing of the meat proteins, is causing them to unwind and form a matrix that traps
AngelaMarie: Note* Denaturing will be mentioned again later.
AngelaMarie: Using Diamond Crystal kosher salt, you'll need 2 cups per gallon of liquid. Morton's kosher salt is denser, and you only need 1-1/3 to 1-1/2 cups per gallon of liquid to get the brine concentration that is necessary to brine properly
AngelaMarie: there is a good place to find out about the weight of the different types of salts
AngelaMarie: http://www.cooksillustrated.com/images/document/howto/ND01_ISBriningbasics.pdf
<_Shirley_> so the salt is by weight not volume?
AngelaMarie: yes
AngelaMarie: correct
AngelaMarie: there is a difference in the weight of salts .
<_Shirley_> and what is the weight needed
AngelaMarie: gheeeeeeeeese, dont get ahead of me lol
<_Shirley_> relaxing
AngelaMarie: you will need to go to the url I just provided, it gives you an idea of the weights.
<Roger> What about using Morton's Quick Tender Salt?
AngelaMarie: Because of the structure of the molecules of Kosher salt, I would certainly use that.
<Roger> Ok I have both
AngelaMarie: there is no hard fast rule of what to use. but the large crystals of the kosher salt makes it easier to denature the meat.
AngelaMarie: we will cover that soon
AngelaMarie: when brining you want the large crystals of salt!!!!
AngelaMarie: Before we go forward
AngelaMarie: please let me explain about refrigerators
AngelaMarie: A refrigerator is one of the most important items in your kitchen
AngelaMarie: And it is important , very important that you make sure it has been maintained.
AngelaMarie: why you ask is this important
AngelaMarie: I have found many many refriges that are not maintained and are a sourse of food contamination.
AngelaMarie: The best temperature for the inside of your fridge is between 33 and 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Between 40 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit is the bacterial "Danger Zone," where bacteria that spoils food grows the fastest.
AngelaMarie: Let me go further into this subject for a few.
AngelaMarie: Refrigerators are the one object we dont pay attention to. All Refrigerators have a coil of some type . Most are located under the unit. This is where dirt and crud , Yes we all have crud in a kitchen if you ever cook, can be trapped by this coil.
AngelaMarie: It MUST BE CLEANED
AngelaMarie: not doing so can ruin a brine
AngelaMarie: If a coil is only partially covered with duse, Cat hairs, Dog hairs, Duck feathers or snake skins. it will most certainly cause a very High Head Pressure within the compressor, and making the refrigerator not maintain a proper level of temp. At (almost )all times whenyou find your refrigerator not being at the correct temp in the 39/40 degree area it is the fault of the Freezer. All working parts of the refrig
AngelaMarie: ( I also have a commercial unlimited license in refrigeration) Unlimited meaning I am capable of repairing any size of Refrigeration unit or A/C unit.
AngelaMarie: 04Dirt is the main enemy of Refrig's not working, and ruining food . Or at least the potential for ruining.
AngelaMarie: They do make a Special Brush for cleaning, and may be obtained from a local Appliance Center. Unplug before using a brush since there is also a fan there and you sure dont want to break or bend the blade
AngelaMarie: just a tidbit of info
AngelaMarie: BTW a tip for Fresh herbs and for freezing
AngelaMarie: When storing fresh herbs, put into a plastic bag, ziploc. Insert straw, suck out the air, then blow the bag up and seal quickly. Why you ask Well what do plants breath? What do you exhale? We exhale what plants breath. So you can get more longetivity by giving the plants something to breath.
AngelaMarie: questions yet?
<Judy-Jude> that is interesting!
AngelaMarie: The refridge part is very very important
AngelaMarie: much more coming
<Judy-Jude> I have used the straw and did not replace any air!!
AngelaMarie: ops , have to breath into it. replace that oxygen with your carbon whatev er lool
<Judy-Jude> I killed my herbs!!!
AngelaMarie: lol@ judy
AngelaMarie: just imagine this
AngelaMarie: a real live baloon in your refergerator lol
AngelaMarie: ok , so we covered salt and a clean refergerator
AngelaMarie: helps to clean the inside too lol
<Kathy> brining and guilt
<kimbearly> lol
<Judy-Jude> lol
<Karen> lol
AngelaMarie: leave the guilt outside the house, husbands dont like gurls who are on a guilt trip lol
AngelaMarie: all they want is food
AngelaMarie: By what mechanism does a little salt water work such magic? It's our old friend osmosis If there's more of a diffusable chemical in one place than another, it tries to even itself out.
AngelaMarie: Brining is a form of wet curing, explains George Opalenck, associate professor at Johnson and Wales University in Rhode Island. "When we wet cure, we put the food in a brine, which is a solution of salt, water, something sweet - such as sugar or honey - spices, and herbs.
AngelaMarie: The salt draws the liquid out of the food, but then the brine goes rushing back in. The sweetener cuts the harshness of the salt and rounds out the flavors."
AngelaMarie: I myself Have you had it with tasteless, juiceless pork chops and sawdust chicken breasts?
AngelaMarie: Many professional cooks have, too, which is why they're turning to an age-old technique to restore the flavor and moistness that many meats used to have naturally.
AngelaMarie: In a growing number of restaurant and home kitchens, brining is putting the juice back into pork chops and at least some taste back into factory-raised chickens/turkeys. By soaking the meat for hours or days in a seasoned salt-water solution, cooks find that they can transform lean pork and poultry with minimal cost and effort.
AngelaMarie: Chickens raised to market weight quickly on carefully formulated feed don't have the flavor of those old-time barnyard hunt-and-peckers. Nor does pork have the taste appeal it used to. Bred for leanness to accommodate contemporary concerns about fat, American pigs are 50 to 70 percent leaner than they were 20 years ago, And let me remind you that. Fat, whatever its other failings, contributes moisture and flavor
<kimbearly> is marinating similar
AngelaMarie: "When they decided to market pork as the new lean white meat, they completely ruined the product "If you cook pork loin at home, you end up with this hard, dry, very lean white meat."
AngelaMarie: no
AngelaMarie: "To be honest with you unless you're really careful, it's damn near impossible to produce a decent pork chop without brine."
AngelaMarie: A brined chop will stay moist even if it's cooked a little too long
AngelaMarie: Because there's more salt in the brine than in the meat, the muscle absorbs the salt water. There, the salt denatures the meat proteins, causing them to unwind and form a matrix that traps the water. And if the brine includes herbs, garlic, juniper berries or peppercorns, those flavors are trapped in the meat, too. Instead of seasoning on the surface only, as most cooks do, brining carries the seasonings througho
AngelaMarie: The technique of flavor brining" -- is not done for preservation (which would require a saltier solution and longer immersion) but for enhancing texture and taste
<Roger> Will have to try brine. Hate the dry chops and chicken breasts
AngelaMarie: Even a couple of hours in a brine will improve bland Cornish game hens or give chicken parts a flavor boost before deep-frying or grilling.
<papergoddess> My DH grills wonderful pork chops. He bastes them with dill pickle juice, which is a brine.
AngelaMarie: yes
<kimbearly> i do ok with chicken but not chops
AngelaMarie: one can , after a bit of experimentation , brine almost any type of meat
<kimbearly> that sounds great!
<Judy-Jude> what about beef, Angela?
AngelaMarie: Brines vary considerably from chef to chef, as do recommended brining times. But generally speaking, the saltier the brine, the shorter the required stay
AngelaMarie: And, logically, the brine will penetrate a Cornish game hen or duck breast much faster than it will penetrate a thick muscle like a whole pork loin or turkey breast. Meat left too long in a brine tastes over seasoned and the texture is compromised, producing a soggy or mushy quality.
AngelaMarie: yes one can brine beef
AngelaMarie: Most cooks start their brine with hot water, which dissolves the salt and draws out the flavor in the herbs and spices.
AngelaMarie: By playing around with the liquid base and the seasonings, you can give your brine personality. Some use apple juice or beer for some or all of the water.
AngelaMarie: what is the difference between brining and corning???
AngelaMarie: Seasonings can run the gamut from thyme, rosemary, bay leaf and garlic to cinnamon stick, star anise or vanilla. Many cooks put some sugar in their brine to sweeten the meat and make it brown better when cooked. Others avoid sugar, arguing that it makes everything taste like ham.
AngelaMarie: Whatever their recipe, brining advocates keep looking for other uses for their favorite technique. Some people brine shrimp for half an hour
<_Shirley_> would think any seafood would be naturally brined
AngelaMarie: no it is not
AngelaMarie: one can brine shrimp or any seafood. just have to not brine as long
AngelaMarie: 30 minutes is usually enough with tender seafood
AngelaMarie: I think I covered the difference between brining and marinading
<Judy-Jude> Is it true that lemon juice will cook the fish? That is what I was told.
AngelaMarie: no
AngelaMarie: lemon juice is acidic
AngelaMarie: it dont cook anything
AngelaMarie: just tastes damm good lol
<Judy-Jude> lol
AngelaMarie: What do I use for a brine ? ***
AngelaMarie: As a general starting point, take one gallon of water and add 3/4 (preferable - but you can use up to a cup) of salt (kosher is best !), 1/2 cup of sugar and then the rest is up to you. Sliced onions are nice, a few cloves of crushed garlic add a nice flavor and then there's the spices and herbs.

AngelaMarie: lets change subjects for a second.
<kimbearly> i used oranges and lemons
AngelaMarie: this one amazes me
AngelaMarie: yes perfect kimberaly
AngelaMarie: oops back track lol
AngelaMarie: never ever use acidic foods in a brine.
AngelaMarie: It makes the meat a bit to mushy.
AngelaMarie: now
<Kathy> does it make a difference to the penetration of the brine if the skin is left on?
AngelaMarie: who has done a Chicken ON A THRONE? lol
<Judy-Jude> on a can?
AngelaMarie: no it doesnt
<Karen> is that beer can chicken?
AngelaMarie: yea judy
<NcMysteryShopper> a beer can?
<JadeLady> is that beer butt chicken?
AngelaMarie: want the facts on that lol
<Judy-Jude> yes
AngelaMarie: yea beer assed chicken lol
AngelaMarie: oops
AngelaMarie: lol
<Roger> I have
<Kathy> me too
AngelaMarie: "Chicken On A Throne" is a "presentation" recipe. Meaning folks laugh when they see the chicken propped up with a beer can. You put spices in a beer can, stuff it in the chicken and smoke it. The problems are:
AngelaMarie: 1. Waste of spices. There is no resulting flavor from putting spices in the beer
AngelaMarie: 2. The chicken falls over a lot
AngelaMarie: 3. It doesn't get hot enough to evaporate the beer so it adds nothing to the moistness.
AngelaMarie: 4. You have to buy beer in cans. The only good beer in cans is Guinness and the IRA will put a nail bomb in your smoker for wasting it. So you are stuck buying swill beer which only encourages them to make more. lol
AngelaMarie: The result is good but not due to the beer. Use the rub and forget the can.
AngelaMarie: sorry folks but it really does not add anything to the menu
<_Shirley_> i always worry about the paint on the can lol
AngelaMarie: ah ha
AngelaMarie: good point lol
AngelaMarie: funny as hell shirley lol
<Roger> But it gives me an excuse to buy more beer. lol
AngelaMarie: hiring her to be my comentary lol
AngelaMarie: yea
<Judy-Jude> lol
AngelaMarie: it does lol
AngelaMarie: gheeeeeeese lol
AngelaMarie: folks
AngelaMarie: drink the beer and save the chicken lol
<_Shirley_> well buy the beer and pour it into the brine
AngelaMarie: ROFL
AngelaMarie: hey
<kimbearly> that could work
AngelaMarie: At least you get some value out of the beer lol
AngelaMarie: I prefer to drink it. I get more value that way lolol

[Karen From Colorado]

<kimbearly> drink enough and you wont care what the chicken tastes like!
AngelaMarie: lol @kimberly lol
AngelaMarie: right on
AngelaMarie: handing everyone a ber
<NcMysteryShopper> Steven Raichlen actually tested the toxitity of the paint on beer cans
<NcMysteryShopper> that there is no toxins
<NcMysteryShopper> hang on
<NcMysteryShopper> i checked b/c i was worried
<NcMysteryShopper> i put crab boil in our can.. it was yummy
<NcMysteryShopper> Steven Raichlen, grilling guru and author of a new cookbook, Beer-Can Chicken, to find out if his publisher had tested the inks of the beer cans for toxicity when heated.
<kimbearly> thats is good to know
<NcMysteryShopper> "We did a lot of research on this," Raichlen said. "Inks (edible) are applied to a can at a temperature in excess of 500 degrees. The can never gets hotter than 212 degrees in the process of making beer-can chicken. Additionally, we tested numerous different birds and beer and soda cans in a laboratory, and there was zero leaching of chemicals, ink or metal from the can to the meat."
<kimbearly> cool!
<Kathy> I wonder if that applies to metal juice cans too?
<NcMysteryShopper> so we can still drink eat and be merry
<NcMysteryShopper> oh... i dont know
<_Shirley_> but then again aren't they coralating(sp) aluminum to alzheimers?
AngelaMarie: well, I can promise you, if i cook a chicken at 375 degrees over hot coals , even if i use indirect heat, the can will get over 212 degrees
<Karen> I do think that if the liquid in the can doesn't get hot enough to steam out of the can and into the chicken, then it might not matter too much
AngelaMarie: karen, your so right
<kimbearly> i think you are only a few miles from me
<JadeLady> question- what is the ratio of salt to liquid to time in brining various meats?
<Kathy> He uses canned coconut milk too
AngelaMarie: When brining make sure you use an acid resistant pot
AngelaMarie: after you brine you must
AngelaMarie: Rinse REALLY WELL.
AngelaMarie: You MUST wash chicken a good two times after brining and dry good; then put your seasonings on.
<NcMysteryShopper> That was my first brining mistake LOL
AngelaMarie: If it is too salty, you brined too heavily or too long.
AngelaMarie: Keep away from acids in the brine. It will cause the meat's exterior to get mushy. Coke and Dr Pepper is loaded with phosphoric acid.
AngelaMarie: If you are going to use acids make a marinade and go that route
<NcMysteryShopper> coke? in a brine?
AngelaMarie: some people try that
<Judy-Jude> When I do turkey, I rinse it and let it sit in the frig. to dry out. Is this good?
AngelaMarie:It is not good lol
<kimbearly> mine was not mushy just did not taste heavily of turkey
<Karen> what about juices such as cranberry, apple or orange
AngelaMarie: no
<NcMysteryShopper> ah.... i am sorry. i couldnt get in.... so i am late
AngelaMarie: Just pat it dry with paper towels , rinse several times and pat very very dry.
<_Shirley_> orange i think is acidic
AngelaMarie: then proceed to cooking, roasting grilling whatever.
AngelaMarie: grilling on indirect heat tho
<Judy-Jude> good, that will cut down on a lot of time!! lol
AngelaMarie: Baste the turkey or chicken with butter before you cook
<Kathy> If you rinse well, should the pan juices be too salty to use for gravy?
AngelaMarie: We can verify that brined meat and fish absorb liquid by weighing them before and after brining. Brined meats typically weigh six to eight percent more than they did before brining -- clear proof of the water uptake.
AngelaMarie: yes you can brine fish also
AngelaMarie: just for a very very short time
AngelaMarie: Another way that brining increases juiciness is by dissolving some proteins. A mild salt solution can actually dissolve some of the proteins in muscle fibers, turning them from solid to liquid.
<NcMysteryShopper> I have a brine recipe that is so good... and it uses riesling - wouldnt that be considered acidic??
AngelaMarie: Remember, roasting at a higher temperature, say 400 to 500 degrees will of course require a smaller , much smaller amount of sugar if using. It WILL burn.
AngelaMarie: RINSE WELL, I repeat RINSE WELL , and PAT DRY
AngelaMarie: If you are into injections, lol then do it after brininig. I refuse to use needles , except on myself. lol
AngelaMarie: USE A THERMOMETER.Never ever cook a bird over 165 to170 degrees
<Judy-Jude> lol
AngelaMarie: It will continue to cook after you pull it off the heat and get to the correct temp if you tent it for 15/20 minutes to let meat rest.
<Kathy> Can you marinade after brining?
AngelaMarie: NO
<JadeLady> why?
AngelaMarie: you defeat the purpose of brining lol
<JadeLady> ah
<Kathy> So, would you use a rub to give flavour?
<NcMysteryShopper> i do
AngelaMarie: A marinade merely covers the meat with an acidic material that brings your slaive to bring forth enzymes to work in the tenderizing process
<kimbearly> angela do you brine all your meat?
AngelaMarie: yes you can give it a rub
AngelaMarie: yes I brine all meats that I cook
<Kathy> including beef?
<Judy-Jude> How do you do steak tips?
AngelaMarie: becasue of the extra water that is infused thru osmosis into the meat thereby infusing the spices in the being into the meat
AngelaMarie: Just for a shorter period of time
AngelaMarie: think about it for a second
AngelaMarie: If you use a brisket. one must brine that much longer than you would a Chicken breast
<kimbearly> i like saltier beef----may give that a try
<JadeLady> how do you know how long to brine?
AngelaMarie: Meat that is brined is a bit saltier altho when using sugar into the brine reduces the salt effect
<Karen> have you ever used a wine to brine with?
AngelaMarie: hunny
AngelaMarie: give me a chance
AngelaMarie: ill cover that in a few lol
<NcMysteryShopper> what about salt? should a person on a low sodium diet eat brined meat? I am thinking of guests...
<JadeLady> sorry
AngelaMarie: yes
AngelaMarie: add a bit of sugar and the salt will be neutralized
AngelaMarie: here is a table for length of time for brining
AngelaMarie: shrimp 30 min
AngelaMarie: whole chicken 8/12 hours
AngelaMarie: chicken parts 1 1/2 hours
AngelaMarie: chicken breasts 1 hour
AngelaMarie: cornish game hens 2 hours
AngelaMarie: whole turkey 24/36 hours
AngelaMarie: some people do 48 hours but i never ever recommend that
AngelaMarie: pork chops 12/24 hours
AngelaMarie: whole pork loins 2 to 3 days
AngelaMarie: big NOTICE,
AngelaMarie: NEVER EVER FORGET.
AngelaMarie: CHECK YOUR REFRIDGE
AngelaMarie: make sure your refridge is 38/39
AngelaMarie: REMEMBER the dirt section
AngelaMarie: STEAK TIPS?
AngelaMarie: think
<Judy-Jude> not long?
<kimbearly> 30 minutes?
AngelaMarie: is it a thick muscled meat
<Judy-Jude> ah....sounds good!!
AngelaMarie: or a tender type of meat
<Roger> I have some lamb steaks thawed. What time to brine them
<Judy-Jude> Will a vacum sealer do it quicker?
<NcMysteryShopper> ohhhh... you have one of those!!!
<JadeLady> brine round/stew meat longer than cubed tenderloin then?
AngelaMarie: yes jade
AngelaMarie: no judy
AngelaMarie: that dont work
AngelaMarie: lol
<Judy-Jude> okay!!! lol
AngelaMarie: a brine takes time lol
<Judy-Jude> lol
AngelaMarie: lol
AngelaMarie: you children
AngelaMarie: your a mess
AngelaMarie: all of you lol
<NcMysteryShopper>
<kimbearly> should you gently crush the spices
AngelaMarie: Some people are sensitive to salt and find that birds subjected to the full treatment are too salty for their tastes. To reduce the saltiness, add sugar, decrease salt, decrease brining time or soak the bird in fresh water for an hour prior to cooking. You can brine just with salt but since salt takes flavors in with it, why not take advantage. Sugar moderates the salty taste and helps keep the birds juicy. Most
<Judy-Jude> God....I always just throw them in, smash the cloves of garlic!! lol
AngelaMarie: what you mean gently
AngelaMarie: hunny
<NcMysteryShopper> good question kimbearly
AngelaMarie: Iput in a chopper and crush , grind and punch if i have to , to get them smashed lol
<kimbearly> like peppercorns?
<kimbearly> perfect answer!
AngelaMarie: IMPORTANT
<NcMysteryShopper> and juniper
AngelaMarie: READ CAREFULLY
AngelaMarie: HUSH EVERHONE
<kimbearly> i did not do that last time
<JadeLady> kimbearly's question made me think- what about toasting the spices before adding to the brine?
AngelaMarie: READ CAREFULLY
AngelaMarie: Do not over cook! Brined birds cook faster so be careful and use a real thermometer inserted into the thickest part of the breast. Cook to 165/170 interna degrees.. There is no need to cook with the breast down because the bird will be plenty juicy.
AngelaMarie: I usually can do a bird in about 2 1/2 hours at a high temp on grilling. For some reason I like the faster cooking method of higher temps. This is of course arbitrary to the cook.
AngelaMarie: also lets mention cleanleeness
AngelaMarie: Always wash hands thoroughly with soapy water before preparing foods and after handling raw meat. Don2019t let raw meat juices touch ready-to-go foods either in the refrigerator or during preparation. Do not wash or rinse raw meat, poultry or seafood. This avoids spreading bacteria around the kitchen. If washing meat turn your chopping board upside down and use that side, When finished then turn it over, after
AngelaMarie: Using a thermometer.
AngelaMarie: Using a thermometer.
AngelaMarie: An ovenproof thermometer may be inserted into the food at the beginning of the cooking time and remain there throughout cooking. The temperature indicator will rise slowly as the food cooks. Instant-read thermometers are not designed to stay in the food during cooking. If you are using an instant-read thermometer, pull the meat or poultry out of the oven far enough to insert the stem about 2 inches into the thick
AngelaMarie: another note
AngelaMarie: I personally would never stuff a turkey
<kimbearly> what about gravy?
AngelaMarie: it just will not be cooked at a high enough temp for correct cooking procedures if you stop the cooking process at 160/165
<kimbearly> are the drippings salty?
<Judy-Jude> Mine are never salty!
AngelaMarie:However for those of you who want to do that. There is a new item on the market that will guarantee that the stuffings will reach the same temp as the turkey
AngelaMarie: no
AngelaMarie: the drippings will not be salty
AngelaMarie: remember you
AngelaMarie: patted the chicken/turkey dry
AngelaMarie: all the juices are inside the bird
AngelaMarie: or meat
<Judy-Jude> Many people think that the meat is going to release salt. But it does not do this.
AngelaMarie: stuffing the bird is ok , I just do it for taste not to serve.
AngelaMarie: correct judy
AngelaMarie: remember, a Brined piece of meat will cook like about 1/3 faster than an unbrinded meat
<NcMysteryShopper> We are very very salt sensitive (taste not health) and the gravy did not bother us a bit
AngelaMarie: it wont ncmystery shopper
AngelaMarie: that is to much to type lol
<kimbearly> mine brown a bit to much---very quickly.it was in a bag (j) (j)
<NcMysteryShopper> NC workds
<NcMysteryShopper> works
<JadeLady> so if I brine a chicken, then cook it in my showtime rotisserie, I should adjust the time and not go by the mfg directions?
<Roger> What would be the brining time on lamb steaks?
<Kathy> I once tried a brined a turkey and the gravy was inedible, so I guess the problem was that I didn't rinse it properly
<NcMysteryShopper> good question roger!
AngelaMarie: I rub the bird with butter or high xevo and it browns nicely without basting
AngelaMarie: you must wash it a few times and pat very dry
<kimbearly> i only did one rinse
AngelaMarie: altho You can baste it with a sauce if you wish
<NcMysteryShopper> kathy - my First brining experience was that result - I didnt wash the bird well enough
AngelaMarie: need several rinces
AngelaMarie: but remember
AngelaMarie: you could have made the brine to strong
<kimbearly> true
AngelaMarie: or put an acidic ingredient into the brine making it that way
<kimbearly> good thought
<Judy-Jude> Have you ever used the egg method?
<Kathy> come again?
AngelaMarie: mind slips lol
AngelaMarie: egg method
AngelaMarie: refresh my memory
AngelaMarie: hunny
AngelaMarie: im ancient lol
<Judy-Jude> If it floats, it has enough salt. lol..lol
AngelaMarie: oh yea
<kimbearly> do tell
<Charmie> Hey!!!! NCMS!!!
<NcMysteryShopper> if you can walk on it... too much
AngelaMarie: anyone have problems with hard boiled eggs. lol
<Judy-Jude> lol
AngelaMarie: like the green ring
AngelaMarie: or not peeling right?
<NcMysteryShopper> no no problem here.... but you can give my mom a call
<JadeLady> not since I bought an electric egg cooker! need a new one, though. mine's 'bout had it.
<Judy-Jude> I boil the water, then add the eggs shut off and let them set covered for 17 minutes!! lol
AngelaMarie: I have always followed Julia Childs recipe for hard boiled eggs. and I never deviate from it.
AngelaMarie: judy
AngelaMarie: listen
AngelaMarie: your right
AngelaMarie: but you need to boil the water again one more time to boil
<Judy-Jude> oh.oh..the eggs were in it first!! lol
AngelaMarie: drop the eggs into it for 10 seconds
<kimbearly> roger-----i would estimate 30 minutes on the lamb
<_Shirley_> i kinda boil my chicken the same way
AngelaMarie: then drop eggs into ice water for 15 minutes and peel from the thick end
<Judy-Jude> it really does work!!
<_Shirley_> put it in a pot covered with water no lid bring to a boil remove from heat and cover let set 1 hour covered
AngelaMarie: important to put the eggs in an additional 10 seconds
AngelaMarie: ekkkkkkkkkkkkkkks i dont boil chicken
<_Shirley_> yes on beef or lamb steaks about how long to let them sit in the brine??
<_Shirley_> jadelady been there done that
AngelaMarie: depends on the size of the meat dear
AngelaMarie: The larger the meat the longer the brine
<NcMysteryShopper> say a normal size steak
<kimbearly> lamb steaks
AngelaMarie: there really is no set standard
AngelaMarie: lamb steaks, how thick?
AngelaMarie: one inch
<kimbearly> he did not say
<_Shirley_> inch and half
AngelaMarie: an hour perhaps
<NcMysteryShopper> isnt lamb more tender then beef?
AngelaMarie: yes it is
AngelaMarie: lamb certainly not over an hour
<NcMysteryShopper> so wouldnt need as long...right
AngelaMarie: but in the fridge
AngelaMarie: NO
<NcMysteryShopper> i am catching on quick
AngelaMarie: unless you want mushy meat lol
<NcMysteryShopper> Kim, told him 30 minutes
<NcMysteryShopper> how does that sound?
<JadeLady> for something that only needs a short brine, say 30 mins or less, can it be done at room temp?
<kimbearly> i guessed
<NcMysteryShopper> good guess!
<Judy-Jude> lol
AngelaMarie: should always be put into the fridge
AngelaMarie: always
AngelaMarie: never let a brined meat sit on counter top
<_Shirley_> should the brine be a refer temp before adding the meat, if you heat it to disolve and enhance flavors
<Judy-Jude> Do your bring steak to room temp. before you grill it?
AngelaMarie: yes
<kimbearly> well, you have convinced me to try brining again!
<JadeLady> if I keep my fridge on the cold side (lettuce, juices and bottled water freeze on the top shelf!) should I let it brine longer?
AngelaMarie: brine should be room temp

[Karen From Colorado]

<Roger> got kicked off. Yes Kimbearly, I have done goat but not brined
because the brining process is a heat producing process
<Judy-Jude> Roger, 30 minutes or less for your lamb. How thick is it?
AngelaMarie: that is why a brined piece of meat cooks much faster
AngelaMarie: think he said 1 1/2 inch
AngelaMarie: that should be 45 minutes to an hour
<Roger> maybe 3/8"
AngelaMarie> probably be on the hour side tho
AngelaMarie: 3/8 steak
AngelaMarie: 45 minutes is plenty
AngelaMarie: so I have a question
<Kathy> So, just so I understand, you brine the meat in the fridge, then rinse it, then bring it up to room temp (for beef) before grilling?
<kimbearly> get your buzzers ready!
AngelaMarie: did anyone learn anything?
AngelaMarie: Yes kathy
<Judy-Jude> lol, yes, thank you!
<kimbearly> yes, yes, yes!
<kimbearly> lots
<Kathy> Thank you, yes
AngelaMarie: and to think she was standing in the corner and still learned lol
<Judy-Jude> This will be the first time that I have ever brined beef stips!
<_Shirley_> yes i have a basic brine to work with and time thank you!!
AngelaMarie: I will post a perfect brine that is to die for tomorrow n my recipe
<Judy-Jude> We will all have to share tomorrow!!
<NcMysteryShopper> i have two that I love - look them over and tell me what you think
AngelaMarie: I will post a brine and an aromatic
<kzbhansen> I learned quite a bit!!! Im excited to brine now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AngelaMarie: and dont ask me what an aromatic is lol
<Judy-Jude> lol
AngelaMarie: listen cooks
<NcMysteryShopper> one is cayenne & brown sugar and the other is a reisling brine
<kimbearly> i must have come in late----what is an aromatic???
<NcMysteryShopper> thank you angela
<Charmie> oh i like the sound of the first one!
<JadeLady> what about veal? I've never tried cooking steaks, etc. just the scallopine.. would/should you brine veal steaks?
AngelaMarie: if you ever perfect the brining process, you will never ever cook another chicken or turkey any other way
AngelaMarie: that i can promise
<Judy-Jude> I also use raw sugar and it works good too!
AngelaMarie: in a brine you dont want a lot of sugar, just enough to offset the possible addition of salt into the meatg
AngelaMarie: if you use sugar in your brine, NEVER EVER COOK ON HIGH HEAT
AngelaMarie: it will burn the meat
<Judy-Jude> Nice glaze too!! lol
AngelaMarie: most people use brown sugar in their brine not white lol
<_Shirley_> thank you angela
AngelaMarie: yea a burnt glaze lol
AngelaMarie: lawdddddddddddddddddd
<Judy-Jude> The raw sugar is brown though.
AngelaMarie: can see it now
<JadeLady> but us salt freaks don't have to use any sugar/sweetener, right?
AngelaMarie: blackend chicken/. turkey, sort of like blackend catfish lol
AngelaMarie: no
<Judy-Jude> lol
AngelaMarie: Actually
<NcMysteryShopper> Kim - aromatic adj. Having an aroma; fragrant or sweet-smelling: aromatic herbs.
AngelaMarie: most people will not recoginze any additional salt in the meat from brining
<JadeLady> I salt my salt.
<kimbearly> thank you nc
AngelaMarie:some people who are alergic to salt may tho
<Judy-Jude> Thank you Angela, this was great!!!
AngelaMarie: rofl @ jade lol
AngelaMarie: salt my salt lol
AngelaMarie: funny
<Judy-Jude> Judy waving bye and thanks!!!
AngelaMarie: hey, any questions that you have , that I have not answered here
AngelaMarie: please feel free to zmail me and ask
AngelaMarie: i'll find the answer for you
<kimbearly> thank you!
<JadeLady> I can't zmail
<Judy-Jude> opps......backing up!! lol
AngelaMarie: if I dont know it
AngelaMarie: huggggggggggggggggggggggggggggs to all
AngelaMarie: thanks for stopping by
<Kathy> I was here, waiting, at 11 am, eastern time, for the class to begin...talk about a keener!Well worth it. Many thanks
<NcMysteryShopper> Thanks Karen!
<Karen> for those of you that wish to have the links that angela gave us and for those that missed the class


Please don't quote all of this. If you have a question about any part of this chat, you can copy and paste just that part by hitting the quote button, copying the part you wish to talk about and then hitting the quote button again. It is just way to long to quote the whole thing. Thanks!