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    You are in: Home / Community Forums / Breads & Baking / not to complete first rising?
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    not to complete first rising?

    fawn512
    Thu May 26, 2005 7:55 pm
    Food.com Groupie
    I joined a class for making yeaste bread. It was a chinese buns.

    The chef told us that we wouldn't complete the first fermentation process. We didn't even punch the dough. I forgot why...

    We used instant yeast, and dough improver in the recipe (what's the shelf life of dough improveR? where to store?)

    As we finish the first rising, and shape the though... it the dough still has a mind of its own . We can't shape it well.

    The chef told us somthing about freezing or was it chilling the dough first to make it easier to form.

    Does that make sense?

    Is this always the rule?....when using instant dry yeast... you don' t have to use warm water when mixing ?
    Donna M.
    Thu May 26, 2005 11:09 pm
    Forum Host
    fawn512 wrote:
    I joined a class for making yeaste bread. It was a chinese buns.

    The chef told us that we wouldn't complete the first fermentation process. We didn't even punch the dough. I forgot why...

    We used instant yeast, and dough improver in the recipe (what's the shelf life of dough improveR? where to store?)

    As we finish the first rising, and shape the though... it the dough still has a mind of its own . We can't shape it well.

    The chef told us somthing about freezing or was it chilling the dough first to make it easier to form.

    Does that make sense?

    Is this always the rule?....when using instant dry yeast... you don' t have to use warm water when mixing ?


    I'm not sure I can answer all your questions, but I will answer some of them. It is hard to answer when I am not familiar with the dough you are using.

    1. The shaping will be easier if you let the dough rest for 10 minutes after kneading, and then shape it. If it is a very soft dough, then chilling would help.

    2. I don't use dough improver, but I would store it in the fridge for maximum life.

    3. Did the chef send you home with the dough to finish the fermentation and baking? Most likely you wouldn't have had time to wait for the fermentation in a class session.

    4. You don't have to use warm water with instant yeast. Many times a recipe will call for a 'cool rise' (fermentation). Cooler temperatures allow the yeast to grow much slower and therefore there is longer fermentation time which allows the flavors to develop. You will have a better tasting bread with this method.
    fawn512
    Fri May 27, 2005 1:07 am
    Food.com Groupie
    Thanks donna, as always, for replying.

    I'm using dough: bread flour, ap flour, instant yeast, sugar, powdered milk,bread improver, salt, water, eggs, butter.

    it's easier to shape dough if you let it rest for 10 min? Then punching down the dough isn't necessary step? Coz i read you have to punch the dough once its doubled in size.

    If it is a soft dough, i need to chill for how long?

    The chef didn't send me home to finish the fermentation and baking. but the place is air conditioned ( i live in a tropical country). The class started at about 10:30 and ended at 5pm

    Quote:

    4. You don't have to use warm water with instant yeast. Many times a recipe will call for a 'cool rise' (fermentation). Cooler temperatures allow the yeast to grow much slower and therefore there is longer fermentation time which allows the flavors to develop. You will have a better tasting bread with this method.


    The yeast will grow much slower if using the cool rise method even if its instant dry yeast?

    I'm so confused in bread making... i havn't done any bread aside from attending the class. Which i think didn't help me at all.

    icon_cry.gif
    Heather Sullivan
    Fri May 27, 2005 3:37 am
    Food.com Groupie
    That bread will rise more slowly anyway due to the weight of the eggs and butter.
    With quick yeast, you knead, shape, let rise, bake. No punching down of dough. Quick yeast doesn't always have enough power to go on after the first rising.
    Donna M.
    Fri May 27, 2005 11:06 pm
    Forum Host
    Fawn, you would need to punch the dough down before shaping. I would say that you would need to chill the dough for several hours. Dough is quite dense and takes awhile to chill through.

    You can substitute traditional yeast for the instant in most any recipe. Just dissolve it in a part of the water called for in the recipe. I actually prefer traditional yeast because it has more lasting power for rising, especially with refrigerated doughs.

    WE WILL GIVE YOU ALL THE LESSONS YOU WANT TO LEARN HOW TO BAKE BREAD! Just come on here anytime and ask questions. All it takes is practice and getting a feel for how the dough should look. Even the flops are usually edible. Just keep on trying!
    fawn512
    Sat May 28, 2005 1:30 am
    Food.com Groupie
    Donna M. wrote:
    Fawn, you would need to punch the dough down before shaping. I would say that you would need to chill the dough for several hours. Dough is quite dense and takes awhile to chill through.


    To punch down or not to punch down? Does Using instant yeast requires punching?

    Quote:
    WE WILL GIVE YOU ALL THE LESSONS YOU WANT TO LEARN HOW TO BAKE BREAD! Just come on here anytime and ask questions. All it takes is practice and getting a feel for how the dough should look. Even the flops are usually edible. Just keep on trying!

    LOL, thanks for helping. The bread we made did taste good, even if its hard and crumbly. Oh how i love bread icon_smile.gif
    Donna M.
    Sat May 28, 2005 11:13 am
    Forum Host
    If you have refrigerated the dough for a time then yes, you need to punch it down before shaping--even with instant yeast. During the time it is in the fridge it will rise a bit.

    If your rolls were hard and crumbly, you may have:

    1. Not let rolls rise long enough after shaping before baking.

    2. Added too much flour (not the case if your dough was soft and sticky).

    3. Not kneaded the dough properly or long enough to develop the gluten.
    fawn512
    Sun May 29, 2005 5:45 pm
    Food.com Groupie
    thanks donna for all the help. Oh, one more thing. I will be baking 2 batches of proofed dough. Is it ok to leave the other half in room temp while i bake the first batch?
    Donna M.
    Sun May 29, 2005 9:51 pm
    Forum Host
    fawn512 wrote:
    thanks donna for all the help. Oh, one more thing. I will be baking 2 batches of proofed dough. Is it ok to leave the other half in room temp while i bake the first batch?


    It would be fine unless the extra time would cause it to rise too much before baking. I'd stagger your batches--if the first batch will take 1/2 hour to bake, then start your second batch a half hour later so as you are taking batch one out of the oven, batch two is ready to go in. If that won't work, then put batch 2 in the fridge while you are baking the first batch to prevent over-rising.

    What kind of bread are you making this time?
    fawn512
    Tue May 31, 2005 1:28 am
    Food.com Groupie
    it only takes 15min maximum time. I'm will try to bake chinese buns. This will be my first time to use yeasted bread (except for the time in the enrolled class)

    If i put the 2nd batch in the fridge, then should i increase the baking time since they turned cold?
    Donna M.
    Tue May 31, 2005 11:05 am
    Forum Host
    The baking time shouldn't need to be increased much, if any, for a small bun. You will be able to tell when they are done by the color. Good luck! I hope this batch turns out even better than the first, now that you have a bit more knowledge. When are you making them? Be sure to come back and tell us how it goes.
    fawn512
    Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:26 am
    Food.com Groupie
    I'll be making a new thread with questions regarding my recipe. Will post the recipe too. Hope you don't get tired of answering my quetions.... i might have repeated some. Sorry I want to make sure i will make this one better, so i posted the recipe just to have a basis of what i am talking about icon_biggrin.gif
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